Poetry as a means to grieve and heal: A Conversation with Ayeyemi Taofeek (Aswagaawy)
Interviewer: Mazeed Mukhtar Oyeleye
Taofeek Ayeyemi fondly called Aswagaawy is a Nigerian lawyer and writer whose works have appeared or are forthcoming in Lucent Dreaming, Ethel-zine, the QuillS, The Pangolin Review, Kalahari Review, Minute Magazine, Tuck Magazine, Haibun Today, Modern Haiku, Hedgerow, Acorn, Akitsu Quarterly, Seashores, contemporary haibun online among many others. He won the Honorable Mention Prize in 2020 Stephen A. DiBiase Poetry Contest, 2019 Morioka International Haiku Contest, 2019 Soka Matsubara International Haiku Contest, 1st Prize in 2018 PoeticWednesday Poetry Contest and 2nd Prize in 2016 Christopher Okigbo Poetry Prize. His collection of poems "aubade at night or serenade in the morning" is forthcoming in 2021 through FlowerSong Press.
In this conversation, Aswagaawy chats with Mazeed of Book O’Clock about his father’s demise, how poetry has been therapeutic, his love for haiku and much more.
Thanks for granting me a boarding pass to tour your beautiful world.
It's my pleasure [smiles]
Let’s start from the beginning. How and when was the 'Ayeyemi Taofeek Aswagaawy' brand conceived and baptised into the literary space?
I bet it’s not the traditional way.
Before taking poetry seriously in 2015, I've been known by the nickname Aswagaawy. So I thought this would make a good pen name and decided to retain it. Almost always, people tend to quickly identify me as Aswagaawy than my birth name. So for easy and quick identification, I make my name appear with the nickname. As a beginner in 2015/2016, I shun out several works, almost in "a poem a day" spree. I think the consistency and prolificacy alongside the uniqueness of my penname which often sounds fun to many, makes the name established.
Interesting indeed. What prompted the dive that has brought much more recognition to your name?
“My thought pattern comes always in my progenitor’s language, Yoruba, and this gives my works a touch of uniqueness and sort of rusticity.”
Well, immediately I took up poetry, I held a mantra in mind and it goes that "Consistency is key." By consistency, I held it to mean giving the art every focus and attention it needs because I also knew that "Whatever you focus will expand." Then, I think there’s something about a poet’s style and subject matter. My thought pattern comes always in my progenitor’s language, Yoruba, and this gives my works a touch of uniqueness and sort of rusticity. Recently, I got a work accepted by Minute Magazine, and in the acceptance mail, it is mentioned that “We especially loved the coexistence of the man-made and natural world that you presented in your poem.” That wasn’t the first time I’ve been told this. I also got my chapbook reviewed by Sir Jide Badmus and he made similar lines: The profound use of mundane images by the author is enviable... He is so at home with nature-induced images.
I didn’t set out to mention what my works entail, but this, among others, has always been reader’s remarks about my works.
Beautiful! I wouldn’t make less marvellous remarks if I were in their shoes. You’re an inspiration.
Having learnt of the origin of this blessed stream. What I’d like to know is what best precipitates a visit from your muse. How well do you get along with themes and prompts? Do they make good friends?
“A word can trigger ten poems”
Thank you. [smiles]
A word can trigger ten poems for me, a line from another poem can, and most often than not, feelings and emotion drive my muse a lot, whether happy or sad. On themes and prompts, I always advise fellow young poets to explore and attempt them. I find it easy to pull out when I have themes and prompts; but when it doesn’t flow, I don’t force it. I’ve ignored several theme-based contests because the muse didn’t come. And I’ve done well in some contests when my muse resonates with the theme. At Writers Connect, we have an activity called Picture Prompt. And in one of such activities recently where we gave participants themes to write upon, I decided to also write on the given prompts. I submitted it a few hours after writing it to a Journal and it was accepted and forthcoming in August, on Cypress Poetry Journal in Toronto, Canada. It’s also my (personal) tradition since 2017 to do 30-DAY POETRY CHALLENGE in November which has various themes and prompts to write on.
So, my muse relates well with prompts and themes, but when they disagree, I do not force them.
Hmmm, your muse is the aura, and you are the oracle.
So, what do you do whenever words go east while your muse tarries down the western route?
Mayhap, it doesn’t occur with you?
“I see that period as a time to read more.”
[smiles]
I use to say that there's nothing like Writers Block but the thing is real. But what I do in such situation is to write about it and I believe if I could write about the situation, then I have defeated it. Also, I see that period as a time to read more. Whenever there's no inflow of muse, you'll find me reading poems, interviews, journals, essays and whatever comes my way.
In the process, an idea or a word may be a spark for one's fresh original work(s).
Wow! My notepad has committed that to memory.
Looks like you have everything figured out regarding this marvellous space.
[smiles] I learn every day though and tap from other poets' experience. That’s why I enjoy reading interviews the most.
Which epoch of your career strikes you as the most memorable till date? Why is it? And I’m quite eager to hear you bare your mind on this. I know achievements are something, but some are too phenomenal to unfetter from memory.
Yes, you’re correct. Success is a relative term as they use to say. What might seem memorable to a person could be ordinary to another. But then, at some point in time in my writing life, I have experienced things that wowed me and stuck to my memory to date. But since the beginning of my writing, and I know this is one of the goals of many writers out there, I used to look up to traditional publishing. The day I got my first traditional publishing acceptance from Ethel Press (North Carolina) for my chapbook "Tongueless Secrets" was a great one for me. It was a dream come true. After about two months, I got another publishing acceptance from FlowerSong Press (McAllen, Texas) to publish my poetry collection "aubade at night or serenade in the morning." This blew me off, it was like a back-to-back thing for me. But I’ve not publicly announced the first acceptance because it has not been formally announced by the Press. I observed the Press use to announce their new works only when the Book Cover design is ready. So I’m waiting for that time. And while I have more dreams I look up to, these mark a great and sharp turning point for me and assure that the rest is feasible.
Permit me to call the back-to-back effect a double-barrelled rifle that left bullet scars in your mind.
[smiles] Maybe. Maybe not. Scars that assured you of a fantabulous (sic) future.
Yeah. Like my tribal marks, they are scars of beauty. [smiles]
Hehe. As regards your forthcoming works, I’m excitedly waiting, as I’m sure the entire literary community is impatient as well.
I followed this year’s edition of Amrayn poetry series, read your works on Facebook and other of your works Google led me to, like 'portrait of me as a patriot' and your poems on Erogospel. I enjoyed snorkelling in the sea flowing through your grandiloquent lines and must say you are a mean poet who loves leading the audience through the Sahara, for only the brave to refuse to throw in the towel.
I admire your versatility in executing any poetic style you condemn to death (for that’s what you do, you kill it) but why does it seem you love haiku the most? Why this unconventional form?
“I have a passion for nature, and the fact that there is a form of poetry that keeps taking you close to nature made me fall in love with the haiku.”
[smiles] Wow! It’s refreshing to see these works mentioned, and thanks for your kind words.
Wow! The simple mention of haiku does something good in me. I have a passion for nature, and the fact that there is a form of poetry that keeps taking you close to nature made me fall in love with it. Its brevity is fantastic and its aesthetics are wonderful. I think my mainstream poetry changed since I focus more on haiku, by this I mean the understanding of its pristine technicalities especially the rules of objectivity, sincerity and simplicity, rub off a lot of benefit on my free verse poetry.
Another arm of haiku I enjoy a lot is haibun (haiku prose). This allows me to tell my story in their best briefness that I can. I’ve been asked several times why I do not write fiction, such as short stories and novels. And my response use to be that I’m not dexterous in that field. Yet, I always want to tell my story which creative nonfiction can’t completely do, haiku and its offspring, haibun, made this easy for me.
Haiku is more than just a form of poetry, it is a discipline, it is an institution bearing in mind Zen and Yugen rules among others, and I find out it so much resonates with me.
I’m glad we brought up haiku, because its magnetic pull has managed to reach me. I hope to also tie a knot with haiku soon as your description of her did something to me. Your succinct description leaves no bones, so the next question refuses to be a patient dog.
Who is the target audience for your works? Why is that?
“I write for the world. I write for my countrymen. I write for whoever can relate to my work at any point in time.”
The bombs tearing apart the Syrians concerns me, so I write about it. The explosions and restlessness in Kaduna concerns me, I write it. George Floyd’s extrajudicial killing seized my breath too. The bullet that broke Ahmaud Arbery’s chest pierced me too. The corruption cankerworm eating up our land and creating an aperture for destruction and war is to me like putting a naked fire on the roof while we go to bed; so I shout and point to it with my work. Aside from these, I tend to philosophize about life, death and everything in between, with my works; and I teach my tradition, belief and cultural heritage with them. Whoever finds them resonating with them are my audience. Whoever wishes to learn new things about these are my audience. So while some works are generic, some are specific and they pick their audience by themselves.
Wow! This is something.
So I caught a glimpse of death there in your response and it sparked a shadow fire in my mind.
Do accept my condolence on the loss of your father. May the Almighty have mercy upon him.
I had to leave your poem 'My thought after walking into a moon in the morning after a short, cold night' for fear that I might betray machismo if I trod that valley unprepared, and returned to read the soul-stirring beau much later. I also read your poem 'Chagrin' and felt hit. What kind of impact does his demise having on you and your writings?
“Poets pour their pain into poetry, in fact with the ink as their blood, but readers read it and say "kudos." What an Irony.”
Amen. And thanks so much. Just like whenever I got struck by life’s unfavourable events such as failure, heartbreak or loss of a beloved, Father’s death made me run to poetry. Poetry became the only place I can say all my pain and disappointment about father’s death, how life and fate could be or was unfair. Although the shock made me lose poetic expressions and all I could do was rant and rant in plain words about the whole thing, I later got the spark after his eighth-day prayer. Anytime I write emotional poems, I have only written the maximum of three poems on a single event. But following my father’s death, I have written about 12 poems of lament and invocations. One of these poems, whose title you mentioned, is forthcoming from Wine Cellar Press in July or August. While I lament through these poems, I find them as another way of immortalizing father and keeping the memories I had with him. The day I wrote the poem with the lines "I dropped the last sand on his tomb, but I am still here waiting for fortitude," the source of fortitude I got that day was the Flowersong Press acceptance mail.
While father’s death broke me and made my plans look distorted and untidied that I had to stay home to get emotionally ready for life again, I think its toxicity was like fertile soil for my writing.
I have once said that poets pour their pain into poetry, in fact with the ink as their blood, but readers read it and say "kudos." What an Irony.
What an irony indeed!
Looks like creativity is not limited to the composition, but also the comprehension of poetry. The agony is only shared by fellow creatives while others relish the impressive features of the work.
You’re correct about this. I’ve also observed that, except a few who are not fellow creatives but intense readers. But then, there is a common happenstance, both groups of persons enjoy the work.
But do you think pain or sorrow births brilliant musings?
“There’s no creativity at play when you write them, they jump off your mind and crash on your page. They come with a sort of unique fire”
As few as I’ve experienced, it does. Poems that come from your emotion, especially sorrowful ones, are raw and crude. There’s no creativity at play when you write them, they jump off your mind and crash on your page. They come with a sort of unique fire, and that’s why readers would always feel what you felt when you wrote it. One of such poems I wrote before father’s death that got people talking about it is "Bird by Bird, Unfeathering my Grief" which I wrote after a disappointment which I called a self-inflicted heartbreak. Aside from readers' recurrent feedbacks, such works I’ve written got to appear in Journals or got places in contests. Maybe that’s what’s behind the common advice for writers that when you’re depressed, just write off your pain. Apart from the healing you get from it, they tend to always be brilliant works.
Hmmm, write off your pain, and how possible is that when it’s writing that brought you the pain?
Does writing bring pain? Maybe when you keep getting rejections especially where you were strongly anticipating acceptance. I think this has been a common source of pain for writers. While I will say writing off such feel of dejection due to the recurrent rejections suffices as a therapy in that event, I will say as human, there are more therapeutic things we can resort to. The whole life does not revolve around writing only. Even as writers, we can look into other things that wring off our pain; for some, it is zikr, yoga, sharing time with beloveds, et al.
But then, when you write (off) your pain, aside from the therapeutic effect, you tend to have a qualitative and brilliant piece of work in the end.
Apt! How best do you suggest creatives prepare for and against rejections, and deal with it upon event?
“not all rejected works are bad, some ain’t just fit for the journal at the time”
Hmm. When I send out my works, I do not always have the feeling that it must return with acceptance. However, I know it might be either of the two. This mindset would always be there to mitigate the feeling of disappointment and dejection. Another thing is that not all rejected works are bad, some ain’t just fit for the journal at the time. Some journals have a fixed schedule for several poems to be published at any point in time while some have targeted (unannounced) themes for a particular issue. I’ve got works that were rejected by nonpaying journals but got accepted by paying journals. My poem "Our World as a Tree Falling Leaf by Leaf" has been rejected timelessly and had not been accepted by any journals till present, but it won me the $100 Honourable Mention Prize in the 2020 Stephen A. DiBiase Poetry Prize. So, we should always treat rejection lightly and be good on ourselves. And if we think there is the need to spice up our craft after series of rejections, we should do that and the effort would worth it.
Luckily, a large number of these journals accept simultaneous submissions. So a set of poems can be sent to 10 journals at a time. In my thinking, if the work is fine enough, one of the 10 journals should say yes.
If not, then we shouldn’t beat ourselves but find ways to better our craft.
This advice is needed by a gargantuan audience.
And talking about craft, what do you classify as a good poem?
[smiles] A good poem must be laden with imagery. Victor Shklousky said;
"Poetry is thinking in image." Furthermore, Ezra Pound, one of the proponents (in fact the leading proponent) of free verse said: "It is better to present one image in a lifetime than to produce voluminous works." And while explaining the sacredness of "Image" as one that makes good poetry, he said, "An Image is that which presents an intellectual and emotional complex in an instant of time."
And imagery in poetry is gotten by good use of poetic devices, especially figures of speech. Of the hundreds of figures of speech, a poet should have a good control of metaphor and symbolism. These I have read a good number of poets emphasize a lot. And having mastered them myself, I find the postulation trusted. And the realization always brings to mind the words of Robert Frost, as said in "Education by Poetry," that Unless you are at home in the metaphor ... you are not safe anywhere.
Alongside, the metaphor and symbolism, I enjoy the use of personification a lot. It is a figure of speech that’s close to metaphor. Above all, it is wise to say that imagery is the soul of poetry.
Imagery is the soul of poetry. I am imprisoning this line in my cranium.
[smiles] Even in haiku, creating images is very germane. The only difference is that there’s no poetic devices in the creating of haiku images. So any work of art must create images. Yes. Imagery is the soul of poetry.
Where do you see the Nigerian Literary space in the future, say 10 years?
Because Nigerian Literary Space is not where it was 10 years ago, by which I mean it has advanced and got better, it would be greater than what we have today in 10 years. Almost every day, we keep having a volcanic eruption of young creatives among whom I am, and this would continue still daily. In addition to the recent developments, Nigerian Writers have gone to win international awards and publications; say the recent win by Michael Akuchie, the earlier win of Taiye Ojo, the anticipated chapbook of Adedayo Agarau in the 2020 New Generation African Poet Box set, a lot of fellowships and MFA wins, the Pushcart and Best of Net nominations of RMG, Nome Patrick and Aremu Adams, among many other fantastic progress. All these are there to encourage homegrown support for writers and by this, we’d begin to have traditional publishers in our country too, residencies, fellowships and grants for writers. These are where I see Nigerian Literary Space.
Yeah, everyone sees positivity. I hope we live to play more important roles in remoulding the space for posterity.
We have come a long way and I would like you to leave a parting shot for our audience before drawing the curtains on this conversation.
“Purpose backed by passion is the vehicle that drives you into achievements.”
Beyond all the wins, recognition and acceptance, passion for your craft is most paramount and foremost. And there will be no passion without purpose. Purpose backed by passion is the vehicle that drives you into achievements.
This is deep; aubade for a sleeping creative.
Thanks for being my tour guide through your world in a yacht driven by your words Aswagaawy. It was a memorable experience.
[smiles] It’s my pleasure. Thanks for finding me worthy of your conversation.
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Mazeed Mukhtar Oyeleye is a journalist and a creative writer. He is a member of Book O’Clock, Pen Press UDUS and a coordinator at Students for Liberty.
